On the 11th of November 1988, the guests to appear on Ireland’s the Late Late Show included one 93-year old Jack Campbell. It still remains one of the most fascinating interviews I’ve ever seen handled perfectly by Gay Byrne.
Jack Campbell was a veteran of World War 1; the War to End All Wars.
At this time, Ireland was still under British rule, so many Irish people went to fight under the British Army.
On why Jack Campbell joined the British Army
Gay Byrne’s opening question was:
“How come you went into the British army, anyway?”
Jack replied that he had 4 brothers (5 including him) and they all served in World War 1.
His eldest brother would often regale them with stories about the world and how wonderful it was – they decided that the only way to see it was at someone else’s expense, so joining the army was the only real way to see the world.
Two of his brothers would ultimately die – Jack would be gassed on the same day one of them lost their lives in the Somme.
“He was killed in the morningtime and I got gassed at the same place and on the same day,” Jack Campbell told Gay.
Like many people who fought in the Great War, Jack lied about his age; he was only 16 and told the recruitment officials that he was 18. It wasn’t him he came up with the idea – it was a recruitment sergeant who told him that he should lie about his age.
On Trench Warfare During World War 1
The topic of conditions in the trenches came up; Jack Campbell told Gay Byrne that they were 10 – 12 feet deep.
When Gay asked about going over the top, he had heard that people shouted and wanted to know this was true:
“I never went over the top that I wasn’t scared. I was scared stiff. And everyone shouted because more or less we were all scared. And you shouted because it, kind of, helped you, see. And you shouted all the way until you got into action”
“The bullets were flying, you’d hear the whine of the bullet and the burst of the shells and all that kind of thing”
When asked about how bad the conditions were, Jack replied that it was “just punishment”:
“If you had any food you were saving for a rainy day, the only safe space was in your stomach, because the rats would find it wherever you put it”
Jack would then discuss how the rats would live off of the bodies of the dead, which prompted Gay to ask how far away they would be:
“They’d be all around you”
See, the problem was that you couldn’t bury the dead. If you tried, Jack said, then you’d just be an easy target for the Jerrys (slang for German soldier during WW1) and you’d end up as one of them.
“It could be a friend of yours, it could be a relative, the rats gourging on them…”
On being gassed
On being gassed, Jack Campbell said:
He was on a working party on that day, bringing supplies to the line the enemy troops figured out they were there and fired a shell barrage at them; a piece of shrapnel hit him in the hip – he checked himself over and couldn’t see any injuries, so continued on as normal.
That evening they were on the way to bring in some wounded – it was then that the enemy sent over gas shells. Of course, as soon as they smelled it, everyone put on their masks.
About two minutes later, he was violently ill in his mask – his eyes began to sting – and he couldn’t breathe.
It was only when he had taken it off and a friend came over that he realised what had happened; the shrapnel from earlier had become lodged in his gas mask!
“I never felt so bad,” Jack told Gay Byrne.
On how Jack Campbell felt about World War 1
Gay Byrne finished the interview by asking the then-93-year-old how he felt about the War and whether he felt it was senseless, Jack told him about the loyalty he experienced:
“In 1915, when things were began to get good… we got 7 days leave. Of all the lads who got that 7 days leave, everyone of them came back.
That’s loyalty”.
Finally, Gay Byrne asked him about the soldiers he shot – if he ever thinks about them:
“No, certainly not. It was kill or be killed. You kill them or they kill you, one or the other.
It was just a game. War is war, Gay.
You kill or be killed, no no, you’ve no remorse for anything like that.
You were just doing what you took the Oath to do …
… without malice or ill-will”
Jack Campbell, the World War 1 Vet, died on the 18th of November 1992 aged 97 in Leopardstown Hospital.